Episode #72: Interview with Bonnie Casamassima


From a very young age, we have been inundated with messages that we can only trust those authorities and institutions that are outside of us. We have been taught not to trust ourselves. I sat down with Bonnie Casamassima as she shared her story. Listen in to hear what prompted her to go on a journey of "unlearning" and how she is translating her journey (and the juxtaposition of both the seen and unseen) into her work. If you are in the midst of an unbecoming or a personal transformation, I think you will find Bonnie's story to be one of hope.


Booth: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Freedom from Empty podcast, building strong, effective resilient leaders and humans. My name is Booth Andrews, and I am your host. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode.

As we record today, September's Well-being Challenge is in progress, but if you missed out on this, go around, you can sign up for the waitlist and be one of the first ones to find out when the next challenge is or when the challenge is available again. In fact, if you sign up, you may influence the next release of the challenge, which will be offered again, based on popular demand. Go to boothandrews.com/wellbeingchallenge with no hyphen to join the waitlist.

So we're doing a little bit of an experiment today. I'm actually recording outside [00:01:00] with my special guest and I'll tell you about her in a moment. So if you pick up some birds in the background or some barking dogs, that would be why, but I'm really, really pleased to welcome my guest, Bonnie Casamassima. Combining over a decade of research driven experience, her intuitive empathic nature and educational approach, Bonnie guides clients on how to use the psychology of interior design and the healing science of nature within their everyday spaces to nurture their productivity, intuition and wellbeing. She is the Principal and Founder of Interweave People Place and an Adjunct Professor of Interior Design at Savannah College of Art and Design. Bonnie holds a Bachelor of Science Degree in Interior Design from the University of Tennessee at Knoxville and a Master of [00:02:00] Fine Arts Degree with an interior design, focusing on biophilic design and environmental psychology from SCAD.

She lives in Knoxville, Tennessee with her partner and his two kids. She enjoys traveling, pottery, live music, and a good belly laugh. And she's almost as good of a hugger as I am. Welcome to the Freedom from Empty podcast, Bonnie.

Bonnie: Thank you so much. It's so great to be here with you and what a mouthful.

Booth: And I am so excited you're here. And I picked up on something that hopefully you'll speak to as we talk, but one of the things that I include in my conversations and my presentations around trauma is that part of the healing process is having a safe space that you can really a place where your body can downregulate and feel safe enough to engage its rest and restore and healing nature.

[00:03:00] So hopefully we can touch on that a little bit, but let's just get started if you'll just tell me a little bit about your story.

Bonnie: Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, it's so good to be here with you and it's such a delightful day to be outside. So hello to all the listeners. I hope you all are having a great day while you're listening to this.

And in a nutshell, how do you even start with your story? Right. At a high level, I guess what drew me to reach out to you to share my story here on the podcast is I'm so drawn to you, inviting people on to share their conversation of how they leaned into becoming their full self. And I'm so inspired by hearing other people's stories around what that journey looked like.

In a nutshell, I guess, to kind of synthesize it as I was preparing for today's conversation, about five years ago, I was working 60, 70 hours a week, [00:04:00] balancing a lot of jobs and hobbies, et cetera, and, um, started meditating. Just for stress reduction. It's like I'm all over the place. Even in addition to that in about a few week period, I went through broken engagement. It was mutual, beautiful humans, we just did not need to be together. A distancing from my family due to political differences and finding out that a family member was really ill. So once I picked myself up off the floor with this and realized, you know, all these things that I put my foundation in outside of myself had kind of been stripped away. It really took a moment to pause and say, okay, dear universe, what are you trying to tell me with this? In The process I went on a whole eat, pray, love journey. I [00:05:00] am a teacher. So I had the winter quarter off and spent a month in Costa Rica, learning Spanish.

And, and in this process, including, you know, therapy and really trying to identify who am I at the middle of all of this, I started meditating for that stress reduction. One day, a visual popped in, it was almost like a movie screen in my mind's eye. It's hard to explain. And it startled me at first,

Booth: Like, wait, what is happening?

Bonnie: What is going on? Um, and you know, I'd spent the last decade plus in the research and academia worlds and looking at data. So I'm very analytical by nature. I do love a good hug. Absolutely. But it was really hard for me to wrap my head around these visions, coming in my mind's eye during meditation. But what was really powerful for me with that is as the visuals came [00:06:00] in, I felt very calm and grounded and very nurtured.

So as a test, I started asking questions during meditation just to see what would come through. And sure enough, as soon as I would ask a question pretty quickly after that a visual would come in as a response to that question. And it took me a long time to wrap my head around that. But all I knew is that it was very nurturing and supportive.

So that's a lot of words to say it's been quite a journey of healing, but really more listening to the information that was already inside of me or connected to. I've always been very empathic. So hearing you feeling people's emotions and I just thought everybody did. And as I started experimenting by continuing meditation for stress reduction and listening [00:07:00] to those visuals that came through and then acting on them, life got a lot more grounded, a lot more comforting, a lot clearer, a lot less anxious. So I kept doing. Right. And, and in a nutshell, that has led me to where I am today, where I have gone through trainings to try to hone these intuitive abilities and pull that channeling into the work that I do with space, as well as just one-on-one with people, supporting them in their own journey of connecting with themselves and trusting.

Booth: So what was it like as?Someone who came from an analytical data background to transition or to perhaps add a dimension of grounding and understanding? What was that process like? What was that journey like for you? A related journey, perhaps, but what was [00:08:00] that journey like for you?

Bonnie: Oh, absolutely. It was tough.

Booth: I know right?! Like, wait what?

Bonnie: It was so, because I like wait what is going on? I need the data, I need the science, so I do best, I started researching and, I started finding studies in quantum physics, studies and data analysis, studies in neurology, like what's happening with our pineal gland, what's happening with different parts of our body and our regulation system.

And then I also started hearing other people's stories and their own journey of connecting with themselves and identifying themselves as their own foundation. And in turn often opening up their ability to be connected to so much more than they previously were aware of. So for me, it took a lot of unlearning, just as much as learning for me.

And [00:09:00] I think the biggest piece of that was, and I'm still on the journey, but learning to trust myrself. We live in a world and a society around, um, putting the answer so to speak in other people's ands, right. Parents to child. Teacher to student, right. I'm a professor. Right? So I'm part of that system. And it took me a long

Booth: Give me an answer key. Just give me an answer key and a checklist and I'm good. I'm good.

Bonnie: Where's the syllabus for connecting with my intuitive abilities.

Booth: Absolutely.

Bonnie: I need a 10 week plan. So yeah, I will share I did seek training led by someone who was a natural born medium. And even that was a beautiful synchronicity with it. And I listened, I listened to what resonated in my heart, what lit me up, what information was coming through.

I have a really strong level of discernment, you know, as a [00:10:00] data analyst. I'm really lucky to listen to what resonates and that process led me to take training. That was a six month training led by someone who was a natural born medium. And in that there was a group of 10 of us that were all kind of going through.

I guess quote, unquote, waking up or remembering journey. And that community was really powerful for normalizing. Okay. I'm not, I'm not losing my mind. In fact, I'm removing a lot of the trauma through therapy, remembering that I am my own foundation, learning to trust myself. I'm actually waking up to being connected to these elements that I was sensitive to before, but now I can understand a little bit more about what they are.

Booth: I'm going to ask you a question about unlearning in a moment, and I'm telling you that in case I forget it. 

Bonnie: Sure.

Booth: I think so much of what I'm learning about trauma and what I've come to believe through my own experience [00:11:00] is that we come to this earth with a still intact, I think, a pretty strong connection to Source.

And then throughout life's twists and turns and traumas, we become disconnected, disconnected from Source, and you've referenced this already develop almost a dependent on external approval and acceptance, which, you know, biologically, we are wired to require the belonging. Somewhere along the way we lose the sense of who we are as we try to mold and conform to the demands, whether that be from caregivers or culture or whatever. So that leads into my question, which is what are some of the things you unlearned on your journey?

Bonnie: Oh man. What a great question. So much. And it's a continual journey, right? I hope that if we had another conversation a year from [00:12:00] now, there's even more to uncover, right?

We're such incredible beings as humans. And we have so many layers to us

Booth: And sometimes I don't know about you, but I get to unlearn the same thing sometimes more than once.

Bonnie: Oh man. I go to the same classroom so many times, so many times.

Booth: I love that. I go to the same classroom so many times and here I am again.

Bonnie: All right, what am I here to learn, no, I, I think, um, a big one for me has the unlearning of information only comes from outside of ourselves. And that was the big one. Another one that I needed to unlearn is that this connection isn't evil. Right. And that was a conflict for me, you know, growing up. And I have so much respect for people from all different walks of life and religious beliefs and in whatever resonates with you follow it.

Um, but for me, I grew up in a pretty conservative church and [00:13:00] grew up that if it wasn't what was taught in church, then it had to be evil. And then on top of that movies that we're seeing, and if it's a ghost, it's gotta be an evil spirit. And I was conflicted with that because when I'm meditating and trying to understand the feelings that are coming through in the visuals that are coming through, all I felt was complete love and peace.

And I didn't know what it was. I'm still understanding what it is. Right. But I think for me, a lot of the unlearning, and it's still a process is acknowledging that this information that we are part of, right. We are part of nature. We are part of a universal consciousness. I believe is something that is really rooted in love.

Hard stop. It's rooted in love, hard stop, and that's all I've ever felt with this. And it took a lot of unlearning that this is evil to overcome that. So I wasn't afraid because I found when I was afraid versus just letting [00:14:00] myself surrender to the feelings that were coming through, the information that was coming through, the more I surrendered and trusted, the louder and clearer it got.

And the more grounded I became, the more calm I became. And it was a beautiful cycle from there.

Booth: So who are you becoming?

Bonnie: I hope more of me. It's so interesting that you say that. Literally yesterday I was driving, you know, and I'll do mantras and affirmations and I was driving and I asked the question, how can I be more me today?

And I literally got chills running through my body.

Booth: I love that question.

Bonnie: Yeah. Yeah. So I hope I'm becoming more my authentic self and removing some of that armor that I've put up to protect myself over the years.

Booth: So tell me how this journey has translated into the work that you're doing with clients today.

Bonnie: For me, when I started this journey, I, as an analytical [00:15:00] research driven mind, I was looking at it that it had to be one or the other. And I started out the journey of, okay, well, I guess now I'm a medium and I'm not going to be an educator or someone who works with the psychology of design and that didn't sit. Right. It didn't feel right. So how it's evolved is one, why does it have to be one or the other?

Booth: Why can't it be both and?

Bonnie: Yeah, exactly. Yes and. So that's where it's evolved to, and I do offer channeling support for people to connect with information that's already running through them. For me, the reason I'm offering that support is when I sat down with someone who had honed their own mediumship abilities it helped me to affirm what was again, already inside of me and helped me on my own trust with that journey.

Then on the space side, in the psychology of design, it's really around how can we [00:16:00] use the psychology of our spaces, our everyday environments or homes or offices or schools or healing centers. And how can we use that information that we know to support us in connecting more fully with ourselves. To give that security to offer that trust. How can we have our spaces be a support tool

Booth: and that process?

And that goes to what was prompted as I was going through for me as I was going through your bio, because what I understand about how the nervous system works and how the body works is that the body cannot heal, it cannot rest and restore when it doesn't feel safe.

There are, a number of elements to safety, obviously, but safe spaces is one of them. And so when I talk about safe spaces, I have talked about some of the work that I did with you on, you know, when the pandemic first hit, I had recently met Bonnie and we kind of walked through some spaces in the house just to help them feel as safe as possible, [00:17:00] both for me.

And she did some work with both my girls and I was very interested. I mean, not only are they teenage girls in and of itself is a lot, but then they were teenage girls living through a pandemic. And I'm like, I'm very interested in all of us staying as healthy as we possibly can. And how might our spaces influence that? So can you speak a little bit more about how our space and sense of safety intersect and how you help people carry that out.

Bonnie: A lot of it is through education. So, where I do work one-on-one with people and I work with clients one-on-one I have shifted a lot of my work to be empowering people with the information so they can change their spaces themselves.

And one of the things that's really essential there is the specific work that I do looks at how are we feeling when we're in nature? So our stress levels are instantly reduced. Our productivity increases We are much more connected. We're [00:18:00] present, right? There's no coincidence, right? We are part of nature. Right?

We have the same rhythms, the same patterns when we're looking at. Obviously we're spending 90% of our lives indoors and homes. Hopefully less than that, if you can, but on average. It's how can we pull that experiencea that's supportive for you as an individual or you as a family or you as an office cohort. How you experience nature, how can you pull that experience into your physical spaces?

So it's a field called biophilic design and people say, okay, I put plants every way I'm set. Right. And that's part of it, but there's actually around 87 different strategies you can use and it's, you're not supposed to do them all.

Booth: So I know for my high performers at home with the wellbeing challenge, I said, you know, I'm going to send you a practice a day every day for 30 days. Not [00:19:00] because you need to do all of them. You don't need to do all of them, but you need to have choices and pick the ones that work for you. So, immediately, my eyes got really big when she said there were 80 whatever, I'm like, oh my gosh, I've got to do all 87. So I love that you know, I've said this before. Overachievers die hard.

Bonnie: Absolutely.

Booth: So you don't do all 87 strategies.

Bonnie: No, you don't. And please don't. In fact, that's going to be chaos. But I guess the, the takeaway here is that you use frameworks such as biophilia, such as our psychology and what are we connected to in nature and how do we pull that into our spaces? So in a more tangible way, you can go on a walk in the woods and just take note. What stands out to you? Is it the sounds of the birds chirping? Is it the texture of the leaves cracking under your feet? Right? Is it the feel of the winds across your face? Maybe it's all of [00:20:00] it.

Right, but think about how can I simulate that experience into my day-to-day spaces to create that same sensation. So maybe you are making sure your fan is always on, right? If we're looking at existing spaces, maybe you are incorporating aromatherapy in your environment. Lavender, for example, can be very calming.

Maybe you are prioritizing thick, heavy textures in blankets or your work surface, right. Surfaces that you touch every day touch in particular is one that we're seeing to be incredibly supportive for us as we live in a world where we're touching glass screens all day, our body is literally hungry for texture.

So the way that you can start to engage all five of your senses, thinking about what resonates with you. What resonates with you most in nature is easily step one that I work with for [00:21:00] people.

Booth: Well, and I love how that intersects. So in my 7 Tips for Calm, which is a download, you can get off my website, it's boothandrews.com/7tipsforcalm nature is one of them because the research around the benefits of nature for stress regulation, but also just for overall health and wellbeing and focus is incredible. And also. Engaging our five senses is a, is a practice that I often use with clients to help them down regulate their nervous system when they're feeling anxious.

So it helps calm the nervous system. So we can re engage our prefrontal cortex so we can engage our executive functioning and our brain. So I hadn't thought about like the lack of texture in our lives, but it makes so much sense. Tell me more about the juxtaposition then between the design piece and the medium piece, because I can absolutely relate to this kind of both and.

For those of you who maybe don't know [00:22:00] me as well, I have boothandrews.com or The Booth Andrews company where I'm doing mental health and wellbeing and burnout prevention and trauma informed practices. And I'm also a lawyer. And I also am do a lot of small business coaching, particularly for female entrepreneurs at that intersection of wellbeing and business.

So if you'd asked me a year ago, one of my frustrations was I kept trying to figure out how to put all those three pieces together into something singular and cohesive, which I have not yet figured out how to do and have finally just decided to let it be what it is, but how have you, or how are you weaving together those two elements.

Bonnie: I think it's different for everybody. And I struggle with that. I try to fit it all in the same website, but then a lot of my work is with people in their homes, but also larger corporations on the research side and the consulting side. So the copy and the words that you're using to meet the [00:23:00] needs of that client can be a little bit different than the conversation that you're having with more of an energy centric conversation. Right.

So I have where it's two different websites, but for me, it's all the same goal. And the goal at the end of the day is that I feel incredibly passionate and honored to have worked for the past 10 years plus in the psychology of space. But it's, it's all about how can I be a support through education for helping people know that they can use their own environments to support them and connecting more fully with themselves. And at the end of the day, it's how do you connect more fully with yourself?

And one way is through mediumship channeling where we can talk about anything, including space. Most times it's not, right most times it's, what do I do next in my career? How can [00:24:00] I support my family most. And then the second bucket is creating education programs around helping people with their built environment to support themselves at their foundation. Right.

And then in doing that. What I've been seeing is people are able to connect more fully with their own intuitive abilities. I feel very strongly that we are all connected. We all have a sense of awareness beyond what our five senses allow us to see if you think about the color spectrum. Right. And when you're looking at data and science, we know that the color spectrum is incredibly vast.

It's been measured, but our eyes are only strong enough to see a tiny little sliver of that rainbow in the middle. For me, energy is very much the same way. And once we are [00:25:00] able to downregulate our system using tools like the psychology of design, we are able to calm everything else down to become more aware of that broader spectrum of information.

Booth: So what would you, you say to support someone who might find themselves in the midst of a moderately to highly terrifying transformational journey. There's the deconstruction that happens that is, I know from my own personal journey, terrifying, and sometimes for people highly traumatic. And I think you had some traumatic elements that kind of kicked yours off.

What would you say for folks that might be supportive on wherever they find themselves on a journey perhaps back to themselves?

Bonnie: Listen to what you need in that very moment and trust it. To be specific or a tool that helps me is when I feel [00:26:00] overwhelmed or frazzled or scattled that's a new word scattled?!

Booth: It can definitely be appropriate.

Bonnie: Yeah, anything goes. I will literally, no matter where I am and I can be in line at the grocery store or I can be standing up at a presentation, I literally will close my eyes for four or five seconds and just take a deep breath and then ask, okay, what is it that I need in this very moment?

And usually just the simple act, for me, that simple act of bringing the awareness back to this present moment allows me to stay rooted in that and to trust that there's so much in our world that has communicated to us almost excessively to not trust what's already inside of us. And I feel that is essential. YOu know, deep down, you know, and maybe it's [00:27:00] comes as a random thought or it gut feeling, but listen to what your body is telling you, listen to what your heart is telling you. And go with that.

Booth: I resonate with that in on a lot of different levels and even in the kind of pulling the non concrete back into concrete experience. Um, I remember leading an organization through strategic transformation and literally I would be in a group session that I'm essentially facilitating with my own team, trying to get from point A to point B and having no idea how I'm going to get them there.

I mean, I remember there was one time I literally called a break, went into the restroom and was like, I have no idea where to go next. Help me. I don't even know without even a specific name at that time, just help me find the next step. Took a deep breath, went back into the room and we [00:28:00] somehow got where we needed to go.

And even in the talks that I give, if you've been on the beneficiary side of a talk that I've given and it's impacted you in some way, I can assure you that it is as much preparation as it is me, I will often kind of before I get in front of an audience, kind of say to my inner self, the universe within me, whatever we want to call it.

Please help me share what this audience needs to hear, please help me meet people where they are. Please let me offer up something that is helpful and supportive. And yes, to all of the messages that we get from so many places that tell us that we cannot trust ourselves and that we cannot trust our own inner voice.

I think I mentioned this to you. We're working on a retreat for sometime next year and I'm so excited about, but it really is all about, in the world of entrepreneurship specifically, there's, you know, there's so many formulas, there's so many [00:29:00] strategies, there are so many, you know, buy my swipe copy, which those resources have a place, but the further we stray into someone else's solution, the further we often stray from the solutions that lie within us and that unique combination of skill and experience and story and perspective that only we can bring.

And so we've been talking a lot about just how the, the status quo of the world around us doesn't, isn't supporting us in so many different ways and thee returning to self, and to that, that wisdom and that connection to that greater energy is the guidance system that we hope to continue to help people tap into in a variety of different ways.

Bonnie: Absolutely. I can't wait for that training to come out. So please keep me posted. I think it's, it's really [00:30:00] comfortable to get the answer from outside of ourselves because that's what we've always known. So, and I have so much respect and admiration for people that are willing to share the work that they've done through, you know, programs, use my scripts, use that, and I there's a place for that.

And I do feel for me the most growth and expansion comes from just reminding myself on a daily basis to ask myself. Okay, what is it that is most supportive for me in this moment? How can I use that to support people most in that energy and that connection with it? And the more, I think it's like a muscle, um, it has been for me and a lot of people I talk to, the more you rewire those limiting beliefs around it has to come from outside us. The more that we connect with that information [00:31:00] that's already inside of is the louder it gets the stronger it gets, and it sure is a heck of a lot more fun, a lot less stressful. We've got a helicopter coming over. So if you all hear it, it's there.

Booth: We live within the flight path of the helicopters that go to some of the local hospitals. So we get to hear that sometimes.

Bonnie: As a kid, I always, uh, it's actually on my life list to learn how to fly a helicopter. It is. That's pretty cool. That one just flew over.

Booth: Hmmmm, we'll see if you get that message again sometime soon.

Bonnie: Exactly. My partner, when we first started dating, um, got me a toy helicopter as just a love gift. And it was very sweet. He was, he's a very sweet human for sure.

Booth: I have found that muscle development piece that you're talking about to be true. Not only for actual physical muscles, which folks know who follow my Instagram, at least that I love to lift some weight, but for me, the experience has been [00:32:00] more connected to learning, to reconnect with my emotional state, as someone who spent many, many years trying not to feel things and was so successful at that, that I lost my ability to tap into both my emotions and my own physical sensations.

I coach people regularly that if they want to reestablish those connections and those channels and that awareness to their, the state of their body to the sensations within it, and also to their emotional state, that the more they open that door and indicate to their body that they're listening and practice, that information will become

It's like the, the body is like, oh, oh wait, okay she's gonna listen to me now. Okay. Maybe I'll talk more.

Bonnie: Yeah.

Booth: So I have found that to be true in that experience as well.

Bonnie: Absolutely. I'm curious to hear for you as you've honed that listening, have the messages come through more [00:33:00] frequently and more of a whisper versus a smack across the face.

Booth: One would hope. Yes. Yes. Um, I love that question because yes, I spent many years just, just running myself into the wall repeatedly, and yes, absolutely. The. My body doesn't have to completely take me down most of the time, now for me to, I was speaking just a little bit earlier today and I said, I flirt with the exhaustion funnel regularly, but I've learned to pay attention and I have my tool kit, and I know how to pull myself back from the edge if, and when, you know, if I choose to listen and, and I've gotten a whole lot better at listening. I won't say that I do it a hundred percent of the time, but for me, usually the not slowing down, if I don't listen, I end up sick, I end up with some sort of infection. So, but yes, it has gotten to be a [00:34:00] much more gentle process than it was for many years.

Bonnie: Yeah. Same with me. Thank you for sharing that. It took a catastrophe of family, a broken engagement to be enough to wake me up to say, okay, what is going on here? And now, thankfully, I'm able to hear those classrooms and more of a whisper and course-correct a little less painfully with it. Yeah.

Booth: We humans are stubborn.

Bonnie: Aren't we though we're very brilliant and also incredibly stubborn. And we're good at tricking ourselves too. Yeah, it is. It's been really powerful with sharing this information with people and sharing this conversation with you even now, I find that I've done about maybe 40 ish channeling sessions with people by this point over the past year and a half, two years. And even starting a first channeling came as an intuitive ping. You know, I'm sitting there one day and it said you should do a [00:35:00] channeling session for a friend. It's like, I don't know. So I messaged her before I could talk myself out of it. And she said, absolutely sign me up. I said, you know, it's, it's new information.

I'm going through this training. And long story short, we hopped on a call over zoom. That's all my sessions are over zoom and it ended up being a two hour session. My sessions now are 30 minutes or an hour, but clear visuals came through in responses to her questions and the more that I listen and trust the clearer that information comes through for people.

And in those kinds of 40 ish sessions, I've found that the more that people are able to trust themselves, the clearer that information comes through to. So anecdotally share that it's really powerful. The more you listen, the stronger it gets.

Booth: I love that. Where can people find you.

Bonnie: My work that we're mainly talking about today is on my website, [00:36:00] intuitivebynature.com. And on that site, you'll be able to see information about the channeling that we talked about as well as a education program. That's online that I'm launching October 1st.

Booth: Exciting.

Bonnie: Very exciting. And it's all around creating your sacred space. And in it, we're going to talk about the psychology of design connection with nature and focusing on one area that's your safe space, your sacred space. We'll also work together over five weeks. It's all online. Recorded though live is encouraged on a grounding ritual for you to root in your own energy and use your space as a reminder to connect. So really excited about that intersection of all of me, so to speak with that.

So that's on intuitivebynature.com.

Booth: I love that. That's exciting where I'm hooking on it in this moment is that for those of us, I mean, we've [00:37:00] talked a little bit about not being able to heal when we're not in safe space. I'm working with a stress management client right now. And we've talked a lot about the stress baseline, the intentional investments he can make to reduce his stress baseline, to give him more space, to absorb the stressors of the day and recover from them.

But we also talked about, we use football analogies a lot just because of who the client is, and we talked about, you know, his pre-game ritual as he starts his work day. You know, what is his pre-game ritual to ground himself to center himself to downregulate his nervous system for the stress management and also for the leadership piece. The downregulating the nervous system so we can stay connected to our prefrontal cortex, so we can access that executive functioning is just, it's so incredibly important because it's that opportunity to make a decision between stimulus and response.

And as [00:38:00] someone who idolized Spock from the star Trek series. And then went through the process of slowly losing my mind. And as I went through that journey, learning that there was also something called HeartSpace and not just Headspace and learning to operate from HeartSpace as much as Headspace and the deeper I drop into HeartSpace and this idea can be found in, in, I think, a number of also spiritual traditions, but the deeper that I drop into heart space, the more grounded I become, the more centered I become, the more connected I become to this idea of, to this power. If you've listened for a while, you know, I talk about being part of, you know, the universe and the universe's role in my life. And I use that as much as a, an invitational term, as opposed to calling God a specific thing I use the universe as kind of an [00:39:00] invitational open term for folks and for myself,but how powerful and impactful and important that has been on my healing journey.

And I haven't ever really even thought this thought before. I don't know that if I hadn't literally lost my mind. I think that was the thing that forced me to acknowledge that there was something else that I could operate from that was not completely cerebral and completely logical and rational. And I also recognize it can feel very confusing to try to juxtapose the cerebral and the rational and the things that we cannot see as clearly.

And obviously I'm grateful that you hung in there to go on that journey.

Bonnie: Thank you.

Booth: I think there are many [00:40:00] folks who crave the both and. The science and the spiritual, the data and the knowing the deep inner trust in knowing the things that we cannot see. And I'm starting to think that having those capacities, because it's, I see it as a theme maybe something that is frankly called for as we navigate the very challenging world that we're living in today.

Bonnie: Absolutely.

Booth: Thank you for coming on today. Is there anything you'd like to share with the audience that I haven't asked?

Bonnie: Oh man. Booth. This has been such a joy and honor being on here with you and such a joy getting to connect with those that are listening. Thank you for being here with that. I think you asked so many wonderful questions and I think a big thing that I would love to share with people as they walk away [00:41:00] is to trust. And to know that it's already inside of you. And just like, it was really scary for me to even have this conversation and be out in the open.

Yes, I'm a researcher and a medium. I invite those that are listening to really listen to what your yes ands are and show up fully as all of those. Because the more that we're able to do that and have these conversations, the more it can give brightness to other people on their own journey. Thank you.

Booth: Thank you so much thrilled to have you. And just as a reminder, you can find Bonnie

Bonnie: At intuitivebynature.com/

Booth: And you have a new program launching on October 1st, and it'll be found on that website.

Bonnie: Great. For listening today, if you haven't already, I hope you will go to wherever you listen to podcasts and rate and [00:42:00] subscribe to the podcast. Because when you do that, you make it easier for other people to find this. And I look forward to being back with you next time. .